WANT to Buy 91/92 Allante - Cadillac Forum - Enthusiast forums for Cadillac Owners


Cadillac PininFarina Allante A joint venture with Coachbuilder PininFarina to design and build the Cadillac two top convertible roadster of the 1980's.

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Old 10-25-2009, 11:42 PM
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Default WANT to Buy 91/92 Allante

Interested in purchasing a 1991 or 1992 Allante.

Requirements: Cannot be white
Should be low mileage (50,000 miles or less)
Should be in excellent condition
Prefer alloy wheels
Prefer analog dash

If you have a candidate, send me a PM.
Thanks -
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Old 10-31-2009, 06:59 AM
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Dave

Interesting you don't want white but a Pearl white is the only color I'd trade my '89 red for. Would also say that there are lots of 75k mile cars that are good candidates. Don't eliminate those from the hunt. Alloy wheels---guys use the wheels as the most often used item to personalize their Allantes. Wheel choices -endless. The one item that I did learn from parting out an Allante is just how easy it is to change the alolog/digital dask back and forth. Couple of screws and plug in a connector. I do believe that Scott Flack has a analog dash from a '92 still for sale. I'd buy any available analog and stick it on the shelf and change out when the car is purchased. The digital has a market for guys with bad displays. Make sure you get the bezel also as they are not the same for analog and digital. Also make sure if you buy first, that you know exactly what year car you will purchase as the dashes are not interchangeable over all years of the pre N* allantes. Take your time and enjoy the hunt!
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Old 11-01-2009, 11:27 AM
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Default WANT to Buy 91/92 Allante

Bill,

As for the color decision, it is my wife's, not mine. However, I do agree with her on this.

Nice to know about the dashes. Thanks for that info. Will keep it in mind.

BTW, the error code booklet did arrive!

I have received tons of advice. Some of it has me reconsidering my earlier ruling out of a 93.

I have stumbled on an interesting find. It is a red 93. What is appealing about it is that the engine was replaced in 2000. My thinking is, a 2000 N* does not have the probs exhibited in the first year engine. That makes it somewhat appealing. Is this thought process bogus? The newer engine has 34K on it, while the car has 85K. Additionally, the price is right.

Would you avoid this one like the plague, or investigate further?
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Old 11-01-2009, 01:04 PM
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Default XYZ Allante Facts

Quote:
Originally Posted by wcoates View Post
Dave

Interesting you don't want white but a Pearl white is the only color I'd trade my '89 red for. Would also say that there are lots of 75k mile cars that are good candidates. Don't eliminate those from the hunt. Alloy wheels---guys use the wheels as the most often used item to personalize their Allantes. Wheel choices -endless. The one item that I did learn from parting out an Allante is just how easy it is to change the alolog/digital dask back and forth. Couple of screws and plug in a connector. I do believe that Scott Flack has a analog dash from a '92 still for sale. I'd buy any available analog and stick it on the shelf and change out when the car is purchased. The digital has a market for guys with bad displays. Make sure you get the bezel also as they are not the same for analog and digital. Also make sure if you buy first, that you know exactly what year car you will purchase as the dashes are not interchangeable over all years of the pre N* allantes. Take your time and enjoy the hunt!

Knowing you Bill for many years, I know you didnt mean what you wrote, so i must clarify that.

Olds, take a look at the XYZ Allante Facts thread .. not every cluster will fit every car.

Also know that a digital cluster takes the mileage from the BCM or the ECM (forgot which) whereas an ANALOG is a mechanical set device and cannot be changed (at least not easily) from what is on it when you buy it.




.

Last edited by stomper; 11-01-2009 at 01:08 PM.
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Old 11-02-2009, 12:32 AM
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Red face

Originally Posted by wcoates
Dave

Quote:
Originally Posted by stomper View Post


Knowing you Bill for many years, I know you didnt mean what you wrote, so i must clarify that.

Olds, take a look at the XYZ Allante Facts thread .. not every cluster will fit every car.

Also know that a digital cluster takes the mileage from the BCM or the ECM (forgot which) whereas an ANALOG is a mechanical set device and cannot be changed (at least not easily) from what is on it when you buy it.
Stomper reading my post will show that I have advised Dave that the clusters are not interchangeable. You do bring up the point that the mileage is stored in the BCM (or ECM)
and any digital replacement cluster would show the correct mileage. Th analog being mechanical would start from what was on the previous car .


interchangability:
Here is some info taken from a GM Service Bulletin dated Aug. 95.
1987-Allanté, digital, part# 1639259
1988-89-Allanté, digital, part# 1645296
1988-89-Allanté, analog, part# 1640823
1990-92-Allanté, digital, part# 1645299
1990-92-Allanté, analog, part# 1645300
1993-Allanté, digital, part# 3523531
1993-Allanté, analog, part# 3523532.
1993-Allanté, analog / export part# 3523533
1993-Allanté, analog / U.K. part# 3523534
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  #6  
Old 11-02-2009, 12:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldsD88 View Post
Bill,

As for the color decision, it is my wife's, not mine. However, I do agree with her on this.

Nice to know about the dashes. Thanks for that info. Will keep it in mind.

BTW, the error code booklet did arrive!

I have received tons of advice. Some of it has me reconsidering my earlier ruling out of a 93.

I have stumbled on an interesting find. It is a red 93. What is appealing about it is that the engine was replaced in 2000. My thinking is, a 2000 N* does not have the probs exhibited in the first year engine. That makes it somewhat appealing. Is this thought process bogus? The newer engine has 34K on it, while the car has 85K. Additionally, the price is right.

Would you avoid this one like the plague, or investigate further?
Dave
I'd certainly investigate further. I know you know Jim Swinler from another site, the following is something he sent me that I think anyone thinking about a '93 should know:

There are two varieties of 93 Allantes: The V4J cars and the non-V4J cars. I would guess that more than half are V4J, but not many more.

The V4J has a powertrain essentially identical to that in the 1993 Eldorado ETC, of which a good many were built, and for which parts would not be a problem for a good while. The non-V4Js have a unique transmission which does not interchange with anything else. That is the big significance of the V4J in 1993.

The 93 continues the electric latches of the soft top to the windshield header exactly like the Phase 2 system introduced with the V4J in 1990.

The 93 Allante has different doors which have one-piece window glass, unlike the "fake" vent windows (which are actually anti-wind buffet devices, streamlining the air flow past the ends of the windshield). You get more wind buffet with the top and/or windows down in the 93 than with the earlier cars under the same condition. (Why would a 50k+ (and up) car have "fake" vent windows?)

93 Allantes have more body flex than the earlier cars and that may have to do with the door latches which are quite different from the pin-type locators on the earlier doors.

The 1993 Allante does not have the Keiper-Recaro seats as in your 89. Instead, they have American built seats very similar to those in the Eldorados.

The very early 93 Northstar engines had a tendency to leak oil at the mid-block joint which would fail and require replacement. This was a dealer job to fix, and generally cost in the order of $2k and up. On the plus side, most of those were replaced under warranty, but the possibility that a few have been missed exists. If you go to see a 93 for sale, check the garage floor where it sits. If there is a block leak there'll be a lot of oil there. Then ask. If the gasket replacement was never done and should have been, cut your offer by about $3,000 ... the likely Cadillac price these days.

All of the foregoing is not to denigrate the 93 Allante, it is just to reply to your question. The 93 Allante has a lot of brute power (and gas mileage to match) if you drive with your foot in it.

The 93 shares the same top pulldown oddities as every other Allante. Oh, and it came standard with an EC center mirror prone to fail, dumping purple, acidic fluid on the carpet and upholstery. A Donnelly-made replacement exists, and some owners got failed mirrors replaced free, or at a significant discount.

It appears in the database that the V4J option set begins around PU127025 or so. Perhaps they made an effort to begin them at PU127000. I don't know that, though. PU127031 was built in November, 1992, and it is a V4J.

For pursuit of the ultimate 93, I would do my looking in the 128000 to 129311 (last Allante) area. The later the better.

There is one problem, though. If you get too far out there, you run into cars that are (or tend to be) all Natural Beige Interiors, all Silver Accent strips, and all Analog clusters.

Of course, the hard-top cars (factory hardtop), of which only 330 were built (the PU100xxx cars, begin V4J at about VIN 4PU100037). As with the convertible-only 93's though, the later the better.

And, just to be double-safe, always look for the V4J on the SPI sticker in the spare tire well.
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Old 11-02-2009, 08:01 AM
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Bill,

After reading all this from Olds, it seems to me that he likes to collect cars. I must then assume that he has either holding a unique car or a car with a future value in mind, an increased value that is? That is usually how collecting takes place.

Collecting cars, hub caps, beer cans, etc., has more to do with supply than anything else. The 1993 Allante is by far, the most populous Allante made and as the years go by, the most garaged & therefore the most survivors - heck, I still see NEW 1993 Allantes FOR-SALE, with 5,000 miles or less. That in itself, makes the '93 the least choice to ever become the hot year to own. The '92 seems to show up for-sale with the most abuse of any year, meaning they get real street use with the expected crunching; therefore the '92 survivors are decreasing at faster and faster rates. Read on ...

On the '93 model, trow in the several serious engine issues, several body issues, suspension issues, downgrades in interiors, as well as other points made in the post above, and others that we could debate for years, of all the years made, 1987 to 1993, it all comes to two extremes:

1992 - the least qty made, the most used & abused (one be lucky to find any '92 under 50,000 miles or unscratched), the least number of technical issues of any year model, and BY FAR the smallest population of Allantes.

1993 - the most made, the most garage QUEENs, a disproportional number of all around technical issues, and the largest population of Allantes.

For the most common usage of the Allante, 4500 vs. 4600, cruising at legal speeds or racing to the local Burger King for the weekly Wed morning coffee meeting, I would not expect any significant time differences between the 4500 and the 4600 power trains.

However, if you are planning to race in the open highway, in exceeds of 110 mph, the '93 will take the day - at that speed, the extra 90 ponies do kick in to push the air ahead all the way to about 140 mph where the '92 calls it a day at 125 mph or so. In a NASCAR track, at 140 mph, the 1993 wins hands down. But in all other situations & conditions, city driving, stop light jack rabbits, drag racing, short tracks .. its pretty much a wash and up to good driving skills! Torque dictates performance until air resistance becomes critical somewhere around 110 mph for the Allante profile. I could look for and pull the air tunnel tests, but that is so much effort that i'll skip it.

Ohhh ... a couple of important exceptions .. mountain roads or short tracks with curves, the '93 body extra flexing will bow to the '92 stiffer body as the '92 takes the lead. Lastly, the '92 ability to stop faster than the '93, can be quite a life saver.

That reminds me, its time to take my '92 out of the cave for a wash and a ride before the rains come .. i think the mountain roads are starting to re-open after them fires of the last couple of months.

sorry Olds, somehow, I think we hijacked your thread on finding your Allante. I'll see if I can fix that.



.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wcoates View Post
Dave
I'd certainly investigate further. I know you know Jim Swinler from another site, the following is something he sent me that I think anyone thinking about a '93 should know:

There are two varieties of 93 Allantes: The V4J cars and the non-V4J cars. I would guess that more than half are V4J, but not many more.

The V4J has a powertrain essentially identical to that in the 1993 Eldorado ETC, of which a good many were built, and for which parts would not be a problem for a good while. The non-V4Js have a unique transmission which does not interchange with anything else. That is the big significance of the V4J in 1993.

The 93 continues the electric latches of the soft top to the windshield header exactly like the Phase 2 system introduced with the V4J in 1990.

The 93 Allante has different doors which have one-piece window glass, unlike the "fake" vent windows (which are actually anti-wind buffet devices, streamlining the air flow past the ends of the windshield). You get more wind buffet with the top and/or windows down in the 93 than with the earlier cars under the same condition. (Why would a 50k+ (and up) car have "fake" vent windows?)

93 Allantes have more body flex than the earlier cars and that may have to do with the door latches which are quite different from the pin-type locators on the earlier doors.

The 1993 Allante does not have the Keiper-Recaro seats as in your 89. Instead, they have American built seats very similar to those in the Eldorados.

The very early 93 Northstar engines had a tendency to leak oil at the mid-block joint which would fail and require replacement. This was a dealer job to fix, and generally cost in the order of $2k and up. On the plus side, most of those were replaced under warranty, but the possibility that a few have been missed exists. If you go to see a 93 for sale, check the garage floor where it sits. If there is a block leak there'll be a lot of oil there. Then ask. If the gasket replacement was never done and should have been, cut your offer by about $3,000 ... the likely Cadillac price these days.

All of the foregoing is not to denigrate the 93 Allante, it is just to reply to your question. The 93 Allante has a lot of brute power (and gas mileage to match) if you drive with your foot in it.

The 93 shares the same top pulldown oddities as every other Allante. Oh, and it came standard with an EC center mirror prone to fail, dumping purple, acidic fluid on the carpet and upholstery. A Donnelly-made replacement exists, and some owners got failed mirrors replaced free, or at a significant discount.

It appears in the database that the V4J option set begins around PU127025 or so. Perhaps they made an effort to begin them at PU127000. I don't know that, though. PU127031 was built in November, 1992, and it is a V4J.

For pursuit of the ultimate 93, I would do my looking in the 128000 to 129311 (last Allante) area. The later the better.

There is one problem, though. If you get too far out there, you run into cars that are (or tend to be) all Natural Beige Interiors, all Silver Accent strips, and all Analog clusters.

Of course, the hard-top cars (factory hardtop), of which only 330 were built (the PU100xxx cars, begin V4J at about VIN 4PU100037). As with the convertible-only 93's though, the later the better.

And, just to be double-safe, always look for the V4J on the SPI sticker in the spare tire well.

Last edited by Stealth; 11-02-2009 at 09:21 AM.
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Old 11-02-2009, 09:54 AM
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Default WANTING to Buy 91/92 Cadillac Allante

Stealth,

Yes, I would say you highjacked my thread!

Interesting that you think I like to collect cars, and assume it is for the potential increase in value.

I do not think of myself as a car collector in the "collector" sense of the term, at all. I do admit to liking old cars.

2 of the 4 I have had, as well as the Allante I am seeking, is all on my wife. She wanted/wants her own convertible. The 85 Buick Riviera did not suit her, even though she said it did at the time of purchase! The Corvair was a replacement for the Rivi. She then went ga ga over the Allante, and gladly let the Vair go!

I have had my 62 Olds for 4 years, and have no intention of letting it go. While I have only had the 55 Coupe de Ville for less than a year, I have always wanted one. I have no intention of letting it go either.

If either/both increase in value, so much the better for my estate!

I would also state that I feel my old cars are meant to be driven, seen and enjoyed.

I know that if, and that is a very big if, the Allante ever increases in value, at my age it will not be in my lifetime!

Bottom line is I view myself as one who appreciates and enjoys old cars, not a "collector" in the classical sense of the term. Pun intended!
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Old 11-02-2009, 11:12 AM
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Actually, the collector thing was one of two potential options .. this is what I said:

"I must then assume that he has either holding a unique car or a car with a future value in mind."

and we do agree to the future value .. the big IF .. if it happens (it will) it wont be in our short life times.




Quote:
Originally Posted by OldsD88 View Post
Stealth,

Yes, I would say you highjacked my thread!

Interesting that you think I like to collect cars, and assume it is for the potential increase in value.

I do not think of myself as a car collector in the "collector" sense of the term, at all. I do admit to liking old cars.

2 of the 4 I have had, as well as the Allante I am seeking, is all on my wife. She wanted/wants her own convertible. The 85 Buick Riviera did not suit her, even though she said it did at the time of purchase! The Corvair was a replacement for the Rivi. She then went ga ga over the Allante, and gladly let the Vair go!

I have had my 62 Olds for 4 years, and have no intention of letting it go. While I have only had the 55 Coupe de Ville for less than a year, I have always wanted one. I have no intention of letting it go either.

If either/both increase in value, so much the better for my estate!

I would also state that I feel my old cars are meant to be driven, seen and enjoyed.

I know that if, and that is a very big if, the Allante ever increases in value, at my age it will not be in my lifetime!

Bottom line is I view myself as one who appreciates and enjoys old cars, not a "collector" in the classical sense of the term. Pun intended!

Last edited by Stealth; 11-02-2009 at 11:16 AM.
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Old 11-02-2009, 01:25 PM
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Hi Dave ,I checked out your page. That 62 olds is the CATS ***!! Period..
I enjoyed looking at the pictures of that beauty.
al
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