Pass key fault issue among other things

  #1  
Old 12-03-2008, 05:14 PM
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Default Pass key fault issue among other things

So I bought this 93 Fleetwood a week or so ago. The previous owner told me that the VATS had been by passed. I got stuck 400 miles from home with the car not starting. I made a resistor pack like described on this forum. I know I made the resistor pack right. I know I made it for the right # key. My key is a #12 which is 6.04K ohms. My resistor pack is 6K ohms. Well with in specs. It does not work.

The issue is, that I got the car to start and got myself home without shutting the car off. The pass key fault light goes on and off while the car is running. It will start when it wants to.

Questions:

1. The wires that come from the pass key are two white wires in an orange sheath. After they get to the plug under the dash (where I put my resistor pack) the wires become 1 white/black stripe and purple. Where do these wires go? Maybe the last guy did something to the wires further down the line.

2. Where is the starter relay that shuts down when the VATS system is activated?

3. There is a large orange wire under the dash that goes in to what I am assuming is the ECM. The previous owner ran a jumper wire off this wire to a small red wire on the back of the radio. Anyone know why?

I am expecting my service manual in the mail in the next couple days but I need to have this car operable.

I am very frustated with this car right now and need all the help I can get. I have checked all my connections at the battery and the starter etc... They are all tight and clean. It has got to be in the ECM/CCM or a relay to the starter. When I turn the key I hear a click on a relay that is on the firewall under the ECM (or what I think is the ECM)

Maybe I need to know where the ECM/CCM is and any relay that has to do with the car starting.


PLEASE HELP!!!!

Tommy
 
  #2  
Old 12-04-2008, 07:26 PM
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Default RE: Pass key fault issue among other things

I moved the resistor pack to the trunk next to the CCM and it seems to work so far. Maybe there was a faulty wire between the dash and the CCM. I got my service manual today in the mail. I also learned that my starter enable relay had loose connections. I hope this is the fix for sure. Cross your fingers for me or say a prayer, which ever is your style. Anyway, I got it to start 10 times in a row. I will do some test drives tomorrow but not shut it off until I get home. Having a factory service manual was the key to my success.
 
  #3  
Old 12-04-2008, 08:09 PM
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Default RE: Pass key fault issue among other things

ORIGINAL: ttaylor

I also learned that my starter enable relay had loose connections. I hope this is the fix for sure.
Once agian my post on the duplicate of this thread pinpointed the problem.
 
  #4  
Old 12-05-2008, 01:12 PM
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Default RE: Pass key fault issue among other things

Well I thought it was fixed! No start this morning and I checked what I checked yesterday and it did not make a difference. I think it just started on a fluke and I thought I had done something right. Is there anyway to bypass the VATS other than the resistors? Could my resistors be wrong? I don't know. I do not have a penny to spend on a tow truck and a mechanic. I have got to fix this on my own.
 
  #5  
Old 12-05-2008, 01:34 PM
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Default RE: Pass key fault issue among other things

Sounds like too much monkey busines went on before you. I Know $$ is tight but I suggest a new column and key. Check the salvage yards.
 
  #6  
Old 12-05-2008, 04:23 PM
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Default RE: Pass key fault issue among other things

If I bypass the starter enable relay it will run for two seconds. It then shuts down the injectors. The CCM is not sending the correct signal to the ECM. I need to bypass them both. There is a guy on ebay that is selling a bypass that is supposed to work when just the resistors do not. It is supposed to send the correct signal to the ECM as well as bypass the VATS. Here is a link to the auction.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=320306298654

I will keep you posted.

If I buy a used column and key from a junk yard wont it have the wrong resistance key signal for my CCM? I am under the impression that the CCM reads the signal from the key. Please help me out there. I guess I could buy a #12 keyed ignition switch from Cadillac too. I have no problem taking the column apart. I have the correct tools and can do it in a couple hours. Might be the same cost or less than a used column.Plus it is less work in my opinion.
 
  #7  
Old 12-21-2008, 06:15 AM
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Default RE: Pass key fault issue among other things

Update 12/20

As it turns out my CCM is bad. For now, I have bypassed the vats signal to the starter enable relay, bypassed the signal to the PCM, and cleaned every connection on the car I can clean including ALL grounds and it does the trick. I am eventually gong to buy a reman. CCM and fix it right. The guy that owned this car before me had no business putting the first wrench on this car! I have either removed or fixed anything this guy had touched. He put a thermostat in the top housing where thermostats would normally go on a Chevy 350, so the car had two thermostats severely restricting coolant flow. There was a couple jumper wires that I can't even explain a purpose to have. A very poorly wired interior light circuit that is now in the garbage just to name a couple. I have pretty much read my service manual from cover to cover and gone over the car from end to end. Thank God for service manuals!
 
  #8  
Old 12-28-2008, 06:52 PM
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Default RE: Pass key fault issue among other things

So I finally got it done right. I replaced the CCM and the ignition lock cylinder. I had to buy a VATS interrogator tool to find the PASS key code for the new (used) computer. I spent $50 on the CCM, $55 on the ignition lock, and $46 on the VATS interrogator. Not bad considering what the dealer would charge to repair this. I bet it would have been over a grand if I had taken it to the dealer. I still need to get my new VATS keys cut. I have it running with the interrogator hooked up under the dash for now. I am going to get the keys tomorrow. I feel good now that there are no OBD codes coming up on the PCM or CCM scans now!! WOOHOO! Now I can fix all the little stuff wrong with the car. No interior lights, and the trunk pull down are it for functionality. There are a couple minor cosmetic flaws but they really do not bother me much. I'll fix them over time though.

Any way, thanks to this forum for having info posted that helped me to fix the car.

Tommy
 
  #9  
Old 12-28-2008, 07:26 PM
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Default RE: Pass key fault issue among other things

ORIGINAL: ttaylor

So I finally got it done right. I replaced the CCM and the ignition lock cylinder. I had to buy a VATS interrogator tool to find the PASS key code for the new (used) computer. I spent $50 on the CCM, $55 on the ignition lock, and $46 on the VATS interrogator. Not bad considering what the dealer would charge to repair this. I bet it would have been over a grand if I had taken it to the dealer. I still need to get my new VATS keys cut. I have it running with the interrogator hooked up under the dash for now. I am going to get the keys tomorrow. I feel good now that there are no OBD codes coming up on the PCM or CCM scans now!! WOOHOO! Now I can fix all the little stuff wrong with the car. No interior lights, and the trunk pull down are it for functionality. There are a couple minor cosmetic flaws but they really do not bother me much. I'll fix them over time though.

Any way, thanks to this forum for having info posted that helped me to fix the car.

Tommy
buying a 10+ year old car with several owners can be a crap shoot.

In my buying older cars, I find myself un-fixing the cars from all the little hands that bandaided & bandaged the cars over the years and various ownerships .. so that I could put things back right.

if you expect it, these little things are part of the deal and unless there are major issues, it can be a great $$$ deal.

glad to see you are so tenacious at getting all done correctly.

and it does help to have a spare car.

one more thing .. this is NOT an issue I would have taken to a dealer.
A good automotive locksmith can do wonders for a whole lot less.
IF you got AAA, they would also cover some of the cost.


.





 
  #10  
Old 03-09-2011, 03:46 PM
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Default

my 1994 cadillac fleetwood starts and shuts right back off, i was wondering if you knew how to bypass the ccm because the part has been discontinued, thanks
 
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