Need help with 1997 Eldo starting problem
 

I have a 1997 Eldorado with 63,000 miles on it and last fall I began to have a starting problem with it after it sat for more than 5 or 6 hours. Had to crank it for a few seconds, then wait a few, then crank again a few seconds, and after about 3 to 5 tries it would start. Then it started to get worse, had to do this 6 to 10 times before it would start. After it starts it runs great, no miss, or power loss. I installed a new OEM fuel pressure regulater hoping it might solve the problem , but it didn't. I plugged in my code reader and it had no fault codes logged. Since I live in the snowbelt in PA. I parked it in the garage for the winter, and when I tried to start it a few days ago, I cranked it on and off about 20 times till the battery started to get low and it wouldn't start. I pushed in on the schrader valve on the end of the fuel rail and had wife turn key briefly to on position and fuel shot out like a fire hose. If it is started several times a day while running errands, it starts right up each time. Anyhow, now it really gets baffling to me. I put a battery charger on, and left it on slow charge all night and the next day it fired right up on first try, but the next day it took a dozen tries again, but it cranks over fast . I load tested the battery and it checks out OK. Sorry for the long post, but I figured the more info I can give, the better the chance that someone might be able to help me. I don't know if it is a fuel problem or an electrical problem. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

RE: Need help with 1997 Eldo starting problem
 

No apology needed. great description of problem.

when it does start, is it black sooth out the pipe? is it clean exhaust?
have you checked the actual fuel pressure, aside opening the valve? fuel pump, fuel filter?
have you checked coil pack? primary wires? timing?

RE: Need help with 1997 Eldo starting problem
 

Thanks for the quick reply. I have never really noticed any smoke when the car starts, except after it sat for the winter, and then a small puff of white smoke that I figured was just from some condensation in the exaust system. I don't have a fuel pressure tester to check actual fuel pressure. I haven't checked any of the electricals yet, simply because several of my friends that work at GM dealers ( not Cadillac though ) said it sounded like a fuel problem to them. Our local Caddy dealer is well known in the area for being the worst of the worst ( I know from a previous encounter with our 1990 Eldo Barritz ), so I really don't want to spend big dollars for another bad repair. What should the fuel pressue be while running? And , should it hold a givien pressure after sitting overnight?. I work as a diesel mechanic at a local Mack dealership, so if needed , I can easily buy a fuel pressure tester from my MAC TOOLS dealer an check fuel pressure. Could an electrical problem cause it to be hard starting after sitting, and then start fine the rest of the day?

RE: Need help with 1997 Eldo starting problem
 

IT does sound like fuel .. that is why i asked about fuel pressure.

But be aware that it is also common for the coils to fail and act intermittently. Often you can tell by checking the plugs .. a misfiring coil will be easy to spot for someone that knows what they plugs should look like. The bolded sentence points to this possibility - coil pack.

The fuel pressure will tell you if the delivery system is working, including the fuel pump.
I believe around 45 psi running is what you should see.
I dont believe fuel press gages are expensive, even now days.

You have changed the fuel filter, right?
one bad batch or old batch of fuel, or sitting for a couple of months with grain mix of fuel in the gas tank can be bad news .. we are getting reports of gel in the tank, fuel lines, injectors, and filters with the ethanol mixes. But gel fuel shouldnt act this way, usually once it goes gel, you are done until you clean it out.

I guess my main suspects are : fuel pump and coil pack.
I did say suspects, inocent until proven guilty.

RE: Need help with 1997 Eldo starting problem
 

Well, here is an update on my problem. I hooked up a fuel pressure gauge, and with the key on and engine off the pressure went up to 25 psi, but as is the problem, when I tried to start the car it just cranked and no start. I cycled the key on and off several times with the bleed valve on the gauge open and got no fuel in the bleed hose till the fifth time, then some air bubbles, then on the 8th time cycling the key fuel ran into the bleed hose. I shut the bleed valve and tried starting the car and it fired right up. The fuel pressure while running was 43 psi. After shutting the engine off I watched the gauge and within about 20 min. the gauge slowly dropped to 0. Should the fuel rail hold pressure longer than that, and if so, how much pressue? I don't see any fuel leaks anywhere, or any smell of fuel. Is there a check valve in the fuel pump assembly that holds the pressure on the system, and could it be the problem? I hate to spend $300 on a fuel pump if the dont fix it. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

RE: Need help with 1997 Eldo starting problem
 

Fuel pressure should hold for approx 2 hours, check valve is a part of pump.

RE: Need help with 1997 Eldo starting problem
 

Well, let me ask this; for those of you that know Cadillacs ( I myself am a diesel mechanic, worked at the same Mack and Volvo dealer for nearly 2 decades ) What would you do if you were having the same problem that I am having with your Caddy. My knowledge of gasoline engine injection sytems is very limited compared to my knowledge of diesel injection systems which are much different. If you were having the problem that I am having, what would you do to try to correct the problem? I have replaced the fuel pressure regulater with OEM unit, and replaced the fuel filter, and found no fuel leaks. Would a new fuel pump fix the problem , or could there be an injector leaking off while the car is sitting? There is no smoke when the engine is started. Can the injectors be bench tested for leakage? , and how?

RE: Need help with 1997 Eldo starting problem
 

To check injector for leaking, just pop fuel rail with injectors still attached off intake manifold. Turn ignition on, fuel pump should prime fuel system - look/feel for drip. Leaking injector is very uncommon. If I was in your situation: If FPR wasn't leaking I would have already replaced fuel pump.

RE: Need help with 1997 Eldo starting problem
 

Dropping fuel tanks and changing fuel pumps is far from my top 10 fun things to do.
however, I believe that you have zero'd on the problem. Cant hold the pressure, so either
the system is leaking fuel or the check valve is failing.
IF your fuel injectors were leaking, you be spitting black soot all over when she started up.

The car is 10 years old and so is the fuel pump. It has had a good life, and wants to retire.
Let the pump retire and see what you got after that.

All the way through his thread, fuel system has been the main suspect.
slowroll just gave you some darn good advice .. hey, fuel pumps arent that
expensive specially since you can do the job.

if you can, test it before you install it .. I once went through two pumps in 3 days.
i hate that.

RE: Need help with 1997 Eldo starting problem
 

Well, I dropped the tank and replaced the fuel pump with a Bosch unit. It wasn't quite as bad a job as I thought it would be once I got the car sittin up on stands about 3 feet off the ground. I thought it was gonna be a 12 pack job, but it turns out it was only a 6 pack job. Anyhow, the wife has been driving it for the past 3 days and said it fires right up when she turns the key, so it seems that the fuel pump was the problem. I would like to offer my personal thanks to both STEALTH and SLOWROLL for taking the time to post their advice on this thread. Not only did you help me solve my starting problem, but you also saved me alot of money by not having to pay $90.00 per hour at the local Caddy dealer to diagnose and repair the problem. I really appreciate your help, and hope that this thread might help others in the future. THANKS!