Go Back   Cadillac Forum - Enthusiast forums for Cadillac Owners > Cadillac Models > Cadillac Deville
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?
Search

Reply
 
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 03-02-2007, 12:13 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location:
Posts: 15
Default 1996 Deville - hard to start

My 1996 deville, 80,000 miles, is hard to start. If the engine is warm, no problem, starts right up. But if the car sits for a whlie, and the engine gets cold, then it takes a lot of cranking to get it started.

Does anyone know what is the problem.

I am thinking fuel pump pressure is low.

Mike in Wexford PA, 17 miles north of Pittsburgh.
__________________
Mike Kania, Wexford PA, near Pittsburgh
2006 DTS, purchased used in 2007
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-02-2007, 02:25 AM
Katzmans Caddy's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Toronto, CANADA
Posts: 1,452
Default RE: 1996 Deville - hard to start

Start easy at the 2 filters, air and fuel then spark plugs, then wires. Sounds like you have plenty of cranking amps in your battery but make sure the connections are good especially the ground.take them off the battery and clean them, re-attach nice and tight.I would not jump to the fuel pressure which is the sending unit AKA pump right away but a mechanic can test that for you.
__________________
2006 DTS Performance - L37 32v Northstar NHP V8 292 HP - 1 of 1
1999 STS - L37 32v Northstar V8 300 HP
1998 Deville D'Elegance - LD8 32v Northstar V8 (Sold July 9, 2011 with 225,000 km)
1993 Fleetwood - L05 5.7 TBI V8 (Sold July 18, 2012 with 308,000 km)
1999 GMC Suburban SLT- 5.7 Vortec
1998 Olds 88 LS - Series II 3.8 V6
1973 Pontiac LeMans GT - 454 V8 1 of less than 5
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-02-2007, 02:43 AM
Tech Certified Members
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 423
Default RE: 1996 Deville - hard to start

Hey Mic: The condition you explain is a classic example of an open circuit in the engine coolant temp. sensor, which is hard start when cold but fine whenhot. Hope this helps.........................................
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-03-2007, 11:04 AM
Katzmans Caddy's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Toronto, CANADA
Posts: 1,452
Default RE: 1996 Deville - hard to start

Do you know how to acess the PCM codes? The problem brougham1 points to should show up as an error code. Check for codes and post or let us know and we will telll you how to get them.
__________________
2006 DTS Performance - L37 32v Northstar NHP V8 292 HP - 1 of 1
1999 STS - L37 32v Northstar V8 300 HP
1998 Deville D'Elegance - LD8 32v Northstar V8 (Sold July 9, 2011 with 225,000 km)
1993 Fleetwood - L05 5.7 TBI V8 (Sold July 18, 2012 with 308,000 km)
1999 GMC Suburban SLT- 5.7 Vortec
1998 Olds 88 LS - Series II 3.8 V6
1973 Pontiac LeMans GT - 454 V8 1 of less than 5
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-06-2007, 10:15 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location:
Posts: 15
Default RE: 1996 Deville - hard to start

Thanks for responding to my post. I pulled the codes from the Dashboard Readout feature. Here is what I got
PC0603
AC1347
RS0013 history
RF2560 history

Can you let me know what they mean.

I live in Wexford PA, 17 miled north of Pittsburgh. 96 Pearl White Deville with only 80,000 miles. The car is like new, inside and out. I want to keep it a while longer, but I need to fix the starting problem before it gets worse and I get stranded.

Thanks for you interest.

Regards,

Mike
__________________
Mike Kania, Wexford PA, near Pittsburgh
2006 DTS, purchased used in 2007
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-07-2007, 01:32 AM
Katzmans Caddy's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Toronto, CANADA
Posts: 1,452
Default RE: 1996 Deville - hard to start

I hope some one else has access to these codes because I am not that familar with them other than to tell you that AC1347 is Very Low Refrigerant, RS0013 is a road suspension system code ans RF2560 is a radio code. The PC0603, looks like a memory issue but can't be sure.

Anyway, it is the coldest winter in 28 years, I think your battery may be weak. When you drive around it gets charged upby charging system and when it sits it goes flat. This would be consistent with what you describe.

__________________
2006 DTS Performance - L37 32v Northstar NHP V8 292 HP - 1 of 1
1999 STS - L37 32v Northstar V8 300 HP
1998 Deville D'Elegance - LD8 32v Northstar V8 (Sold July 9, 2011 with 225,000 km)
1993 Fleetwood - L05 5.7 TBI V8 (Sold July 18, 2012 with 308,000 km)
1999 GMC Suburban SLT- 5.7 Vortec
1998 Olds 88 LS - Series II 3.8 V6
1973 Pontiac LeMans GT - 454 V8 1 of less than 5
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-07-2007, 09:55 AM
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location:
Posts: 9
Default RE: 1996 Deville - hard to start

It would also help to have some description of the cranking involved. When the engine is warm, it will generally crank very quickly. When it is cold, if you have a weak battery (or a battery that is not up to a high standard) that can cause a slower cranking speed. I develop and calibrate engine management systems for a living, and one thing I can tell you from my development work is that these distributorless ignition systems generally require a certain cranking RPM before they can work. In the days of carbs and distributors (or even just some of the earlier EFI systems out there), you could have an engine that would fire with just a tap of the starter. Modern systems don't offer that, but what they do tend to offer as an advertised advantage is consistent starting.

If your cranking when cold is more of a craaaaaaaaaank-craaaaaaaaank-craaaaaank as opposed to the hot start crank-crank-crank, and when cold the more you crank it the faster the engine spins, that could be your issue. On my Town Car (which utilizes a completely different system, but that runs off a similar concept), one night when I'd worn the battery down a bit that's how it cranked, and it had to crank over a few times to the point where the engine reached the minimum starting RPM. If this is the case, I would suggest getting a battery with a higher CCA rating (I put the highest I can find in all my vehicles).

If the cranking is as it's supposed to, one test you can try if you think it's fuel pressure is tapping the starter a few times when it's cold. On most systems this will cause the fuel pump to run for a bit, building up pressure, and this should allow you to do a normal start. A better way to do this would be to put a fuel pressure gauge on it, start the car to confirm pressure, and then let it sit overnight. If when you come back it's at 0, then that indicates that you have some sort of internalleak in the fueling system (my Suburban exhibits this exact behavior), which is probably either a fuel pump or a pressure regulator, can also sometimes be a leaking injector.

One clue here, does the car make full power? Sometimes when one of these fuel components is dying and not holding pressure while the car is off, it can also not provide proper pressure, especially at high RPMs and high load and thus result in reduced power.

Hope this helps you some. I'm not a Cadillac mechanic (and am on the road to getting a DeVille), but I spent several years as a Jaguar mechanic and have done my own work on all the cars I've owned, so these are some basic tips that I would convey.
__________________
-Ted
'92 Jaguar XJS V12 5-speed
'97 Range Rover 4.6 HSE
'92 Lincoln Town Car Cartier
'95 Chevy Suburban K2500 7.4L
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-07-2007, 10:25 AM
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,653
Default RE: 1996 Deville - hard to start

Fordcrusher (in this thread) and Katz ( in General tech area) have posted great info on batteries and related problems. I know 'Stealth is up on this too. Maybe we can combine this stuff to the general tech area or a battery and related thread area. Would not want to see the info here lost under other posts.

G.A.R.Y.
__________________
occ
z06
93 allantesold
sts maybe in December
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-07-2007, 01:17 PM
Katzmans Caddy's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Toronto, CANADA
Posts: 1,452
Default RE: 1996 Deville - hard to start

Very good suggestion G.A.R.Y. , How is this accomplished? Cut and paste or re-posts?

I suppose being from the Great White North gives us special insight into battery issues, especially in the winter. I look at battery connections, cleaning and replacement as a preventative maintenace items, 3 or 4 years and replace even if it is still starting your car. I am sure many Northern State members do the same thing. Even here in Toronto it is -13 today.

I carry a set of 18 foot 1 guage jumper cables in my GMC, and a set of 10 foot 4 guage in the Deville, both with strong clean copper clamps. At this time of year they get weekly use in helping other motorists.
__________________
2006 DTS Performance - L37 32v Northstar NHP V8 292 HP - 1 of 1
1999 STS - L37 32v Northstar V8 300 HP
1998 Deville D'Elegance - LD8 32v Northstar V8 (Sold July 9, 2011 with 225,000 km)
1993 Fleetwood - L05 5.7 TBI V8 (Sold July 18, 2012 with 308,000 km)
1999 GMC Suburban SLT- 5.7 Vortec
1998 Olds 88 LS - Series II 3.8 V6
1973 Pontiac LeMans GT - 454 V8 1 of less than 5
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-07-2007, 02:06 PM
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location:
Posts: 9
Default RE: 1996 Deville - hard to start

Thanks, G.A.R.Y., I try to share what I know.

I live out here in semi-rural Pennsylvania. Normal temps here right now are about 10-20F. Before that I lived in Indiana and New York City, and battery issues at low tempswere still definitely common.My fiancee's Range Rover had a newish 600CCA battery from WalMart which died recently. I put in a 900CCA quality battery and it works great. My philosophy is youalways want to be the one giving others a jump, not vice versa!If you want to put in a sticky/tech section or something I'd be glad to write something a bit more formal for that.

I have a set of 10 foot 4 gauge cables that I carry in whatever vehicle I'm driving. The only time they've failed to start a vehicle right up has been on an F-550 with a 7.3L PowerStroke diesel. Every other vehicle has started right up as if it's using its own battery.
__________________
-Ted
'92 Jaguar XJS V12 5-speed
'97 Range Rover 4.6 HSE
'92 Lincoln Town Car Cartier
'95 Chevy Suburban K2500 7.4L
Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2007, 02:06 PM
 
 
 
Reply



Tags
1996, 96, amps, caddy, cadillac, cold, cranking, deville, hard, hot, minimum, northstar, pc0603, rf2560, start, v8


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Advertising

Featured Sponsors
Vendor Directory
Our Sponsors
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:39 PM.

Internet Brands, Inc.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO ©2010, Crawlability, Inc.