1997 Cadillac Seville STS tampered with by seller ...

I just bought a 97 Seville STS with 115K on it just before Thanksgiving and at first the heat seemed to work well enough to make a person uncomfortably hot on both sides of the car and it was still working fine when we got our first sub zero day. About two weeks later it seemed kinda chilly in the car so I turned the temp all the way up and it was only lukewarm, then I notice a cold breeze in the car and relized the passanger side vents were pumping out cold air and the driver/passanger temps are running opposite of each other and the passenger side controls are not changing the temp any. So in trying to resolve this problem, I found this forum. (I think my heat problem may be the sun load sensor that is sitting loose under the loose defrost grill as I had been messing with it before just before my heat problem. Just a guess at this point.)

Now here's the big problem...
I thought the info display was not working when I bought the car. It didn't seem like a big deal at the time, since I know how to check my oil and when to get it changed. Boy was I wrong! While checking to see where the cold air was blowing from I saw the dash from a differnt angle. The display works but it is being covered up by something. Does anybody how to disasemble the dash or know of a web site where I can see an "exploded view" of how to disasemble the dashboard so I can remove whatever is blocking the info display? I just can't bring myself to pay someone to remove what could be a piece of black tape and then still have to fix the problem at hand. I also would like to know what problems were being hidden before I dump a bunch of time and money in to this car.

Thanks!!


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Mod edit:
title

 two things ...

1. 1st thing i do is check coolant level, in fact, change the coolant.  if the coolant level is low,
you will not get heat to the heater core.   there are other posibilities but check that 1st.

2. i expect there is going to be codes that someone was trying to hide.  If it was a dealer purchase,
you might have recourse, depending on your State laws.  Hopefully someone will come along with the
dash assy / disassy part.

mntbrian... first of all welcome to the Forum!!!.. second, removal of a dash imo, is something that you should have someone that "knows how" do. i speak from experience.  a tech friend of mine took my 99 sts dash off to replace the ignition switch. it still isn't right!.......so   however, slowroll has guided me thur a lot of that stuff with expertise.   if you hang in there, i'm sure he'll advise you.
 
now, too bad about your purchase that someone was  hiding something.... do you have any recourse?  which makes me wonder???? does the 97 sts have a digital, or rolling odometer?   i would'nt think the dude that sold you the car went into the dash to put a piece of tape to cover the dic. do you?................. so if the miles have been tampered with, you do have recourse.....    let the Forum know.    you can also run a car fax that might indicate somethings up, though i don't hold lot of value in them as a rule.
 
any case, again welcome to the Forum.  its good to have a new member.  get counted in Off Topic, Cadillac demographics, how old are we.   look around, have some fum and join in when you can.    see ya round
rickyd

If you really want to attack it, check this set of instructions.

http://documents.victorytechnologies.com//documents/product/99-2005.pdf

quote:

ORIGINAL: stomper


If you really want to attack it, check this set of instructions.

http://documents.victorytechnologies.com//documents/product/99-2005.pdf

 
Dang....cool stuff stomp....... thanks!!

 Rick,

anytime one wants to remove dash, door panels, and any other panels for the purpose of speakers, stereos, electronics, go to the companies the market  those items .. often, they go through incredible detail to help the avg Joe do the job of installing their products.

in today's world of electronics, you just have to know who to ask ...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stealth

 Rick,

anytime one wants to remove dash, door panels, and any other panels for the purpose of speakers, stereos, electronics, go to the companies the market  those items .. often, they go through incredible detail to help the avg Joe do the job of installing their products.

in today's world of electronics, you just have to know who to ask ...

i for sure put that site in my fav's

Thank you every one for the replies. The link to file is great! The coolant was the first place I looked. It was maybe a half gallon low, so I topped it off but I can't imagine these cars are that touchy. The engine temp is running dead center on the gauge after it warms up and doesn't move much after that. The part that confused me is I had heat a few weeks ago, even when we got to -5 outside and now that it doesn't get hot I noticed that the passenger side temp is running oposite of the main setting. I'm pretty sure that side was woking fine when the heat was working because my wife complained I was cooking her to death. I couldn't find anything on the net on how the sun load sensor would effect the HVAC, other than its usually part of a climate control system. I started thinking that could be the problem because I had fiddled around with it trying to get the vent grill to lay flat and it is just sitting loose under the vent grill. Does anyone know what that other sensor is that is mounted next to the sun load sensor? Also for the HVAC or sensor for the auto head lamps?
 
One more question would be if the passenger side is blowing ice cold for what ever reason, can it mix with the diver side air flow to give it that "not so warm" temp? It still blows from the same fan. I saw some other posts about a vent mix door behind the glove box, but that sounds like it is more for "where" its blowing.
 
As for odometer, it's digital. I do know that the dash had been apart because the dealer I bought the car from told me he had replaced either the display or the control unit (I wasn't paying close attention, but I thought it was the display) along with the fan speed switch, both for the HVAC. On the covered up display, I don't think I have much in the way of recourse unless it has to do with deployed air-bags or odometer readings since the car is over 8yrs old, 70K+ miles and sold "as-is".
 
 

quote:

ORIGINAL: mntbrian

Thank you every one for the replies. The link to file is great! The coolant was the first place I looked. It was maybe a half gallon low, so I topped it off but I can't imagine these cars are that touchy. The engine temp is running dead center on the gauge after it warms up and doesn't move much after that. The part that confused me is I had heat a few weeks ago, even when we got to -5 outside and now that it doesn't get hot I noticed that the passenger side temp is running oposite of the main setting. I'm pretty sure that side was woking fine when the heat was working because my wife complained I was cooking her to death. I couldn't find anything on the net on how the sun load sensor would effect the HVAC, other than its usually part of a climate control system. I started thinking that could be the problem because I had fiddled around with it trying to get the vent grill to lay flat and it is just sitting loose under the vent grill. Does anyone know what that other sensor is that is mounted next to the sun load sensor? Also for the HVAC or sensor for the auto head lamps?

One more question would be if the passenger side is blowing ice cold for what ever reason, can it mix with the diver side air flow to give it that "not so warm" temp? It still blows from the same fan. I saw some other posts about a vent mix door behind the glove box, but that sounds like it is more for "where" its blowing.

As for odometer, it's digital. I do know that the dash had been apart because the dealer I bought the car from told me he had replaced either the display or the control unit (I wasn't paying close attention, but I thought it was the display) along with the fan speed switch, both for the HVAC. On the covered up display, I don't think I have much in the way of recourse unless it has to do with deployed air-bags or odometer readings since the car is over 8yrs old, 70K+ miles and sold "as-is".

 
well there you go....he has something screwed up in there...... are you able to go in, and look see?    let us know....     .....oh did you purchase from a new car dealer, or a corner car lot?    new car dealer will be more apt to help you so as not to tarnish the dealers name, especially sense hes been into that area of concern, and its not right.
rickyd 

quote:

ORIGINAL: mntbrian

One more question would be if the passenger side is blowing ice cold for what ever reason, can it mix with the diver side air flow to give it that "not so warm" temp? It still blows from the same fan. I saw some other posts about a vent mix door behind the glove box, but that sounds like it is more for "where" its blowing.

I don't think I have much in the way of recourse unless it has to do with deployed air-bags or odometer readings since the car is over 8yrs old, 70K+ miles and sold "as-is".

two things ...

Sold as is .. that still means they cannot hide defects.  AS IS is voided when they do that.

mix door .. you got a door that mixes "WHAT" .. meaning, route the flow through the AC cool fins or the heater core.   additionally, you also have the  "where" door.

as Rick said, sounds like the guy didnt install something.  normally, the mechanic is supposed to test and verify all systems after any work.  specially the  dash.

i dont know what controls your ambient control doors.  we got vaccum and solenoid controls for the mix & direct  flow doors.  all it takes is for one little hose or connector not in place to do that.

BTW, 1/2 gallon down in coolant can create cavitation problems at the pump and impede the coolant flow to the heater core, amont other problems.   It doesnt happen all the time, but it can.  My '88 is one that does that at around 3/4 gallon low. the coolant system is not supposed to have ANY air in it, specially the Northstars.

AS IS must vary from state to state. Vehicles sold as a general sale have an implied warranty normally 30 days. AS IS means exactly what it says no warranty, no legal recource, buyer beware. See "auction cars" thread.

Sensor beside sunload sensor is the Ambient Light or Twilight Sentinel Photocell, it's for the automatic headlights.

Cold air problem very possibly the right side air temp actuator.

Blank display which one are you posting about. You could go to local GM dealer and have car scanned for all stored codes in all systems. Being you just got car and want to "do it yourself" get factory service manuals (both books) so your understand whats going on with car.

It's the info display, but it isn't blank it's been covered up. I was hoping to find an exploded view of the dash to see if I can get in and remove what is obstructing the view. From there I can see if there are an codes for the climate control. I had no luck going back to the "corner lot" dealer I bought it from. I got a hold of him again today and was pretty much told to "go  pound sand".
 
It is supposed to be a little warmer this weekend, so I should be able to put some time in to it now.

Fraud and tampering with vehicles is illegal in all States with legal recourse allowed, whether AS-IS or not.
In some cases, when fraud is involved, even the  "Statues of Limitations" can be set aside.
Cars at auction, salvage title cars, usually do not qualify and its about as close to the AS-IS as it gets. 
eBAY anyone?  Even there, the AS-IS is limited to the description - meaning, if the seller makes a claim, it better be as seller promised or the AS-IS doesnt apply.  Both ebay and paypal will stand by the description, or at least they used to the last time I had to execute a funds reversal.

In CA the "Small Claims" are up to $7,500, I believe.
For that amount, yes, I will pound a lot of sand until someone bleeds cash.
But, does everyone have the energy or motivation to go through that?   Doubt it.

I sometimes tell a story of an uncle that bought a car, tampered with by the dealer before the sale.
He got personal plates that showed " GM JUNK", every day he parked it in front of the dealership and every day after work, and on weekends, at the time many people go to the dealerships, he walked up and down the street with a sign and leaflets.

Long story short .. dealer purchased the car back for more than my uncle bought it for and he walked home with a smile. 

I did get the heat working. It was mix door behind the glove box. Now that I've had it apart and see how it works, my 97 has an access panel in the back of the compartment. So if need be I can get to it easily and move it manually.
 
The odd part is that the armature on the motor seemed to be 180 degrees off where it should've been. I ended up removing it, opening the case and moving the armature half-way around. All said and done it is running slightly cooler on the passenger side (it was hard to get apart and back together with out mashing the gears), but it can be adjusted out with the passenger side control. There is still something flakey with the motor adjusting, where it will go past the 90 degree swing and operate backwards again. If I play with the temp settings from auto up/down temp all the way it starts working right again. The motor has been out before, the mounting screw in the back was missing.
 
Now on to the info display... I'm picking up a Haynes Manual at the library in the morning and then try to locate a Chiltons Manual in town somewhere. Is one better than the other?
 
As for the dealer, I'm going to file a complaint with the BBB. They're not members, but since they show no complaints in the last 36 months, maybe it will get me somewhere if there are any major issues I haven't found yet. They also frequently post their cars on Craigslist, so I will give them a black eye there too. If the info dispay has a piece of black tape over it I will be including a picture with my posts on CL. I belive you have to notify the buyer if there is a salvage title in MN, so that shouldn't be the case.

The Chilton's manual was the better of the two. I got the dash apart, removed the instrumentation cluster and pulled that apart. Then I removed the piece of electrical tape that was covering the info display and got the whole thing back together.
 
So far I know I'm low on windshield fluid (kinda cool) and it's time for an oil change.
 
The only codes I'm showing current are for the broken right front mirror, B2149 & B2150.
 
C1232 & C1233, left and right front wheel speed for the traction control.
 
...and the ACM code B1341, Air Mix Door 2 Fault. Does anybody know if the motor that runs the mix door has a built-in "home position" sensor. I'm guessing since it is a stepper motor driving it, it must have something somewhere that is telling it where it is currently at. Sometimes it works right sometimes it runs opposite.
 
Thanks!!