Help Please!! 1997 Cadillac Deville head gasket ? - Page 2

I think I got a great bargain.  Its funny you talk about the fans cause my boyfriend and I were talking about them last night.  The thermostat change seems to have helped some.  I havent driving enough to see if its still heating up while sitting.  So I will see this afternoon.  I checked the coolant level and its down maybe an inch when normally it would be down atleast 3. 

What temp do you think the fans should kick in??

Still trying to find temperature spec for fans but o/m says Limp Home Mode kicks in when coolant is 126 degrees C so I calculate about 250 degrees F so they should be coming on well below that. I'm at a bit of a disadvantag because we use metric system and even though DIS has both It is always set to metric. I have not seen my car higher that 104 degees C so about say 220 F.  The manual also says that normal coolant level is 2.5" below the base of the filler neck on the surge tank so your level sounds mormal.
 
Last thing, Coolant Temperature Sensor is about $15. With the stress you have been placing on it lately maybe it is shot. It would control a few  functions and one would be the fans I believe. With an engine full of coolant it would be messy but all it is is a threaded fitting that goes in the block with an electrical connector. If you were quick you wouldn't loose that much coolant. Problem is you'd be changing all of the cooling system pieces on by one. Fans are about $130.

Well, haha...Got another check coolant level display today.  I am about ready to pull my hair out.  Along with the check coolant level came a new code P1139 - current - P1139 - Heated Oxygen Sensor (HO2S) Insuff. Switching Bank 1 Sensor 2.  Is this the same sensor that you were talking about in the previous post?  The temp has gotten to about 225 but it goes right back down to 200 so I am not sure if it may be the fan or not.  What is your opinion on it?
 
Thanks,

Sandi

I went out of the office for a while and set my DIS to imperial. My temp got to 196 and it fluxated only  to 192 while I was driving. Beautiful day here in Toronto with a 38 degree outside temperature and a warm winter sun.
 
Well , you are losing coolant somewhere. Honestly there are plenty of places it could leak from Thermostat to heater hoses, radiator leak too. We keep trying to avoid the head gaskets. How's the oil any sign of coolant in there? Any white exhaust?
 
Check your passenger carpet, is it wet, that's where a leak in the climate control could show up. Any dampness on the rad fins, any dampness on the generator cooling lines, any dampness on any undercarriage areas under the motor or rad, any wet hoses to the heater or rad? How's your water pump repair, any leaking around there? Did you get the sealant pellets into the system.?
 
The O2 sensor is not the same as the Coolant Temp Sensor. That message is most likely a result of the engine running hot. There are other causes but probably not applicable in your case. I'm going to say you had better get a pressure test, that is about the only way you find a leak this slow. I'd also recommend a compression test too just to rule out the Head Gaskets.

Weather is pretty nice here today as well.   70 degrees I believe. 
 
Still no white smoke and no coolant or water in the oil.  I got the sealant on my lunch break today and I will put them in before I leave my office. 
 
Do you think that its possible for it to be getting to hot and just boiling out of the drain hose?  Also, is there a seperate fuse for the fans?  I really cant tell if the fans have been coming on or not. 
 
How much do you think pressure test run?  What exactly do they do?

 
 
Thanks, Sandi

A pressure test is a process where the tech will attach a pressurized line in place of the rad cap for an extended period of time. The hose has a guage which reads the pressure in the system. Any drop over the test period would indicate a leak. The pressure will usually pinpoint the leak if there is one. The test is time and equipment so I'd say $100 or less.
 
A compression test is a process where each spark plug is pulled and the gauge is attached while the cylinder is tested. I don't have the specs but generally no one cylinder should be less than 80% of the highest. This is a way to make sure the cylinder heads are solid which also is a measure of whether there is a head gasket issue. Again time and equipment so $100 or less is my guess.
 
The Cooling Fans have their own relay in the MaxiFuse/Relay centre. This is on the drivers side in the engine compartment located beside the fuse block. The fuse block is beside the air cleaner on the driver's side.The relay should be marked as COOL FNS.
 
For now I suggest that you get the pellet sealer in the car and see if things stabilize over the next few days. Normally one would expect to see evidence of overflowing coolant from the tank hose. Overall it is not uncommon in any car to have to periodically top up the resevoir tank. I also think that if your temperature gets up to 225 at idle then drops to 200 when driving and that's it you are ok. The Northstars do run hotter than say your average Small Block and 225 is safe enough from 250 when the engine cuts off and goes into Limp Home Mode.
 
Coolant will turn the oil milky or you may see a milky residue on the rad cap. The sealer may turn the coolant darker and appear thicker.
 
Sorry to be so late answering, as I had a Board meeting for our Local Community Arena Board this evening.

Well, I plan on changing all the plugs and maybe the wires soon.  I changed my oil last night just out of curiosity to see if there was water or coolant in it and it was just fine.  I also put the pellets in.  So we will see.  The coolant level was down about 3.5 maybe 4 inches before I refilled and put the pellets in.  The coolant did get milky once I put the pellets in. 
 
I looked for a fan fuse a day or 2 ago and didnt see one that was or could have been associated with fans.  There were 2 but didnt say anything about fans.  That I can recall anyways.  Ill check again in a little while. 
 
Do you think it is possible for there to be a leak to where it only leaked out while driving?

quote:

ORIGINAL: sburrell78
Do you think it is possible for there to be a leak to where it only leaked out while driving?

Absolutely. As normal heat builds it expands metal and aluminum, cracks can open up and leak. Normal pressure built up in the sytem once operational can also force leaks out. Leaks like this often are indisearnable because engine heat and wind etc...evaporate any signs of leakage. I gave you some hints for areas to look before. The generator is a good one because not too many people know it is liquid cooled. You will see the small diameter pipes going to and from it. If they leak the engine heat from where they are is going to evapoarte the signs of coolant fast.

One last tip and I have not mentioned it before is the base of the radiator and the bottom neck. Devilles of this vintage are known for bottoming out on curbs and driveways. I heard of one fellow who actaully cracked the bottom radiator neck from hitting the bottom of the car so often. The crack was hidden by the rad hose but would open up when hot and almost instantly evaporate.

Wow!! I didnt even think about anything like that.  Would the sealer fix that or is that a radiator replacement?

Sealer helps seal areas around gaskets and hoses but cracks and warped parts not so good. New radiator would be the fix imo. I take it from your reply that you have wacked the front end a few times going up and down driveways?

maybe once or twice...lol...but only cause the places didnt look so steep.  I have always been use to big trucks where I didnt have to worry about stuff like that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sburrell78

Well, I plan on changing all the plugs and maybe the wires soon. 

 
Why? Is the car running poorly? If so that would be helpful information regarding the coolant problem.

When its idleling its like its jittery.  I dont know any other way to explain it.  And with the P0300 code all I can come up with is spark plugs.

P0300 misfire code - You are right about spark plugs being a possible cause. You also need to consider the wires because at your car's age they are probably worse than the plugs. There are also 4 coils that could go bad. I would change the plugs and wires together and see what happens. Also don't forget two overlooked items, the air filter and the fuel filter. Every engine needs fuel and air. In essence you will be doing a tune up.
 
When you leave a stop light does the car hesitate or stumble? How about on the freeway does it accelerate smoothly? Switch your DIS to engine speed and watch the RPM's at a stop or idle. I'd say they should be constant maybe a fluxuation of 25 rpm but no more. Mine stay solid at 650 RPM's when I'm at a stop light.

Its fine while driving but when its idleing its like a slight and constant jerk.  Im thinking I need a new car...lol

NO. Your car will be fine. At least you don't have rusting issues like we have here. Do the things suggested, you don't have to do them all at once but over a few pay days, I am sure it will clear up nicely. These things are normal for a 1997 automobile.

Yeah I am gonna get some new plugs and wires this weekend probably.  Have you ever seen the SES flash 15 - 20 times then stop and stay lite up?

Never on my Deville, but on my GMC yes. It was a misfire condition on the GMC. Check the codes again and see. Flashing turning to steady on is ok. If it flashes and never stays steady I would suggest that you slow down and drive easy and when safe stop because something is probably wrong. Turn off the car and wait at least 10 seconds and restart. If light still flashes go get service. If it goes steady you will be ok to drive as normal. Most SES are emission related when steady. A misfire is an emission problem when you get right down to it but a flashing SES indicates a misfire condition.  Do you have an owner's manual? I think it addresses the SES light both steady and flashing conditions. A steady SES could indicate something as simple as a loose gas cap. In your case it is most likely a result of the misfire creating a malfunction in the emission control system. You can turn the light off by clearing the error codes you have.

About ready to just park it!!  I used sealant last week.  Check coolant level light came on yesterday.  Leaving for work this morning saw the first puddle of coolant under my car.  Havent seen one before.  Wondering if there is a crack or something in the reservoir.

This is awesome actually. You have a leak and probably not a head gasket problem. So now you have to go get the pressure test or crawl under the car youself and have a look around. As I mentioned earlier there are several areas where a leak can occur. What side of the car was the puddle under, how far back, as they may help in giving you tips on possible causes. Look for signs of dampness on the frame etc...

The puddle was between the reservoir and the head light.  Im just wondering why I have not see any leaks before, ya know.

So that is passenger side half way up. Did you get hot again? Was there any chance of an overflow from the tank? I'm assuming no otherwise you would have mentioned this. The problem with slow leaks is that they can leak so slowly but steadily that when driving they hit hot engine parts and evaporate away. As they worsen then you begin to notice puddles. I am going to point you to the Generator. The cooling lines to it are small diameter pipes that would present a smallish or slow leak but would also puddle when they finally fail. Just an idea. You really need the pressure test now, as it will most certainly poinpoint the problem.

How do you repair a generator?

It's just the cooling lines not the Generator. Because Cadillacs are so jammed packed with electronics the engineers choose to cool the Generator with coolant rather than air like most cars. On top of that a Cadillac generator is  probably twice as strong as a regular mid sized car, something like 150 amps vs. 65 amps or so. Look at the pasenger side of the motor and you will see pipes coming and going from that Generator that go to the Radiator. They are small sized, maybe as round as Sharpie pen. You may need a trouble light or flash light to look down and see if you see any drips or seeping areas on the pipes.